Good Job, U.S.A (2487 hits)
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Submitted by GeorgeWashington (View user info) at 2007-12-04 01:40:13 EST
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/04/washington/04assess.html?hp
So... um... basically, we screwed up again.
The United States of America, along with the United Nations, has taken action against Iran because they were developing nuclear weapons. We tried to halt their resources and seemed to be on the brink of war, partially due to the fear that we were soon to become a nuclear power.
And... wait, are you ready for this, okay...
Iran halted it's nuclear program in 2003.
Good job to the American Intelligence. Bravo. We totally screwed this one up.
Not only did we make a whole lot of people fearful, we also pissed of the Iranians, which may just make them want to nuke us a little more.
Then again... maybe they want us to be afraid. That's what the crazy people say, but maybe their right.
America prospers, financially, during wars. It's sad but true. So to convince people that there IS indeed a war going on, thereby keeping the wartime economy abundant (and also keeping the Bush Regime in power) is important enough to, say, not look TOO carefully into the supposed weapons programs that we chastise other countries for.
Wow. Good times to live in, eh?
Well, now the countries who we are already afraid of have one more reason to hate us.
I don't know about you, but I'm stocking up the bomb shelter now.
User Reviews
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-10 09:49:46 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-08 10:22:12 EST (#)
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I have seen some very scary attitudes towards jewish people that stem from this, yeah it is pretty pointless to bring it up here but I can't help it.
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you mean attitudes like your overreactions to muslims, illegal immigrants, abortion, gays and just about everything that makes you convulse with rage?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-10 09:38:36 EST (#)
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it's a wide known fox news fact. link pls.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-10 03:15:04 EST (#)
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And... wait, are you ready for this, okay...
Iran halted it's nuclear program in 2003.
Good job to the American Intelligence. Bravo. We totally screwed this one up.
And I wrote...
"Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up."
And that's it, Caulaincourt. It is a pretty obvious statement that both Clinton and Bush didn't make any efforts to expand our knowledge over there and it may be a good reason why U.S. Intelligence keeps screwing things up.
It is a wide known fact in the USA that the CIA was in terrible shape as after 9/11 showed this. Bush, only in office for less than a year, obviously couldn't take the blame 100%. What's the big deal? You on Willie's cock or something?
I made no arguements over religion. I'm not in that discussion.
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-09 14:49:18 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:41:40 EST (#)
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Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:54:17 EST (#)
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dear fuckwit,
please, for the second time point out where i said ONLY.
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Sorry, that was bad paraphrasing.
But it was a stupid comment either way. First Bush getting elected didn't cause Iraq to invade Kuwait.
When Reagan was elected the US didn't spontaneously start declaring war
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it just seems to me that republicans are more aggresive and quick to make a rash decision. i could hardly care less. i dont live there, nor to i directly have to deal with the naivity of american culture and politics.
Reagan did not, but he did drive gorbachov into a corner. Reagan was a significant force in perestroika and the fall of the red soviet. the aggresive stance worked.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-08 10:22:12 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 17:04:30 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:17:24 EST (#)
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There are millions of people who have never been to the middle east don't speak arabic and never had a falafel and think the zionist pigs are oppressing them.
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yeah...but those people aren't here so who the fuck are you talking too?
just asking.
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No, they aren't.
But the people who think they have a point.
The people who think zionist pigs fucked up the middle east.
The people who inadvertenly buy into the propaganda that israel is bad and palestenians are good.
I have seen some very scary attitudes towards jewish people that stem from this, yeah it is pretty pointless to bring it up here but I can't help it.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 17:04:30 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:17:24 EST (#)
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Inion brought up one ignorant jewish person. I missed where she said fanatic, so when she said they just hate each other I assumed she meant in general all jews and muslims.
That got us on Israel/palestine and she mentioned the high death rate in palestine to highlight how bad it is. Like it or not, whenever you talk about that conflict, you are talking about the entire muslim world. There are millions of people who have never been to the middle east don't speak arabic and never had a falafel and think the zionist pigs are oppressing them.
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yeah...but those people aren't here so who the fuck are you talking too?
just asking.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 17:03:10 EST (#)
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:14:44 EST (#)
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I will admit that it may not be Clinton's fault 100% why our intelligence gathering was damaged under his 2 terms as president. A whole lot of people retired as the cold war was considered "over". He didn't really give much attention to make sure we kept up with the game. So maybe it was only part his fault.
Bush, on the other hand, cannot do much better. That's all on him.
That's not blaming Clinton for the actions of Bush, my Canadian friend. I'm sure there are plenty of people "in charge" at the CIA that are probably more guilty than those two.
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and that's why you went out your way to only mention clinton.
as for fallacious arguments, i dunno, i'm not the one making equations between continents because some people happen to have the same religion.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:17:24 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:59:51 EST (#)
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who's talking about the muslim world?
someone mentionned the palestinians. it's one subject. sudan is another subject. so is iraq and pakistan and whatnot. sure the palestinians get a lot of attention, but that area of the world gets disproportionned media coverage...what can you do.
i understand your point from the moment you made it, i just don't get how you got there in the first place with the conversation at hand.
i don't know, man...to me it just looks like you're arguing with yourself just so you can throw a fit and and masturbate to your own rechauffe.
you sound like the type of guy who pisses himself off as he go along and monopolizes a dinner conversation.
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Inion brought up one ignorant jewish person. I missed where she said fanatic, so when she said they just hate each other I assumed she meant in general all jews and muslims.
That got us on Israel/palestine and she mentioned the high death rate in palestine to highlight how bad it is. Like it or not, whenever you talk about that conflict, you are talking about the entire muslim world. There are millions of people who have never been to the middle east don't speak arabic and never had a falafel and think the zionist pigs are oppressing them.
I don't get pissed off. I skim then think faster than I can type, because I am in the middle of work. I rarely talk about politics in public because there are far more interesting things going on. I talk about it on Uber because I don;t trust the savages here with anything personal, and everyonce in a while you find a diamond in the shit that you would have otherwise not known about.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:14:44 EST (#)
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I will admit that it may not be Clinton's fault 100% why our intelligence gathering was damaged under his 2 terms as president. A whole lot of people retired as the cold war was considered "over". He didn't really give much attention to make sure we kept up with the game. So maybe it was only part his fault.
Bush, on the other hand, cannot do much better. That's all on him.
That's not blaming Clinton for the actions of Bush, my Canadian friend. I'm sure there are plenty of people "in charge" at the CIA that are probably more guilty than those two.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:07:55 EST (#)
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I do enjoy how Caulaincourt resorts to fallacious arguments to get his point across. He hates when other people do it, but he sure can do it himself.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 14:02:22 EST (#)
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:53:56 EST (#)
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This isn't about Fox or simply "blaming clinton". The facts are there: Our intelligence gathering capabilities were destroyed by Clinton and are completely unable to be built back up by Bush... not because they were destroyed by Clinton, but because he seems incapable of doing so.
Maybe you should go back on meds.
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says the guy whose half of his posts are titled with "KILL DEATH KILL MURDER".
calm down, klebold, and profit from that hiatus to actually link your facts for once.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:59:51 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:19:48 EST (#)
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I am saying people who really want to help the muslim world, or feel that muslims are oppressed and look to Israel as a prime example, are either ignorant of what is going on (no I haven't been there but UN standard of living index and mortality rates of the past 20 years back this up as fact), are hypocrits, or are just looking for an excuse to hate the jews.
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who's talking about the muslim world?
someone mentionned the palestinians. it's one subject. sudan is another subject. so is iraq and pakistan and whatnot. sure the palestinians get a lot of attention, but that area of the world gets disproportionned media coverage...what can you do.
i understand your point from the moment you made it, i just don't get how you got there in the first place with the conversation at hand.
i don't know, man...to me it just looks like you're arguing with yourself just so you can throw a fit and and masturbate to your own rechauffe.
you sound like the type of guy who pisses himself off as he go along and monopolizes a dinner conversation.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:53:56 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 14:29:02 EST (#)
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Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-05 12:00:42 EST (#)
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Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up.
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when in doubt, blame clinton.
stop watching foxnews, you ETS antipode.
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This isn't about Fox or simply "blaming clinton". The facts are there: Our intelligence gathering capabilities were destroyed by Clinton and are completely unable to be built back up by Bush... not because they were destroyed by Clinton, but because he seems incapable of doing so.
Maybe you should go back on meds.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 13:19:48 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 11:18:47 EST (#)
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all this rape talk doesn't make a fundamentally flawed argument, or lack of thereof, any more true.
you talk as if the muslim world is one big cohesive entity. i have no idea wtf sudan has to do with plestine, to be honest. i doubt your idiotic rationale translates in reality.
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That is beacuse you are too stupid to get it or are playing dumb.
The muslim world isn't a cohesive entity but the elements that are very "anti west" (up until the Iraq war) used Israel as their rallying call for why the west was so evil.
Palestine, while life may not be great, is still better off than many muslim countries where they treat each other worse. I am not saying that makes things better for people in Palestine. I am not saying that this makes life ok in Palestine. Nowhere in this conversation have I said anything like that, contrary to how you keep twisting my words.
I am saying people who really want to help the muslim world, or feel that muslims are oppressed and look to Israel as a prime example, are either ignorant of what is going on (no I haven't been there but UN standard of living index and mortality rates of the past 20 years back this up as fact), are hypocrits, or are just looking for an excuse to hate the jews.
Nowhere did I say Israel is perfect, which I am sure you will imply because you can't grasp having a middle ground. Nowhere did I say that it is wrong to put pressure on Israel. I am saying using that to justify anti western sentiment is BS.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 11:25:36 EST (#)
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i just told my project manager that i'm out of solutions and that i will not deliver if him and the client don't do their part.
then an analyst jumped into the conversation and told me that at least, i'm not busy as he is.
i have no idea how that makes my situation better but i thought about the indoninja argument and went back to my cubicle with a big smile on my face...yay! :-D
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 11:20:43 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:46:00 EST (#)
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So even the UN backs up my claims it is "fucking retarted" to say one country is worse off than another?
You are the idiot who is too fucking dense to see the difference between comparing the conditions in two countries and comparing a kid getting raped with the condition in another country. One is apples and apples the other is apples and fucking retards. You really can't how worthless your comparison is?
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i will stop working and enjoy poverty cuz north koreans are poorer. yeeepeee!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 11:18:47 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:36:59 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:04:42 EST (#)
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i'd like to see indoninja tell a palestinian face to face "you know, it ain't that bad compared to say, sudan!"
at this point, our friend indo who's pissed off 24/7 (maybe he juices too much) probably thinks i'm daring him or something, but no, i would just like to see the puzzled look on the palestinian's face when hearing this retarded non-argument.
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Are you fucking retarted?
I didn't say that since it was better than Sudan, Indonesia, Egypt and Pakistan (what the UN report says) that it is good. I didn't say that they don't have it bad. I said there were worse places.
To use your stupid analogies, so you can maybe get it. If you had a friend who hated black people because his cousin was raped by one, and you knew that his other cousin was raped in the ass by ten white people, don't you think it would be a little hypocritical for him to use the rape of the one cousin to justify his hate for white people?
Nowhere in this post did I say palestine is great, or that living there is good. But you are too dense to get that. Any american who has any opinion outside the US must be a narrow minded idiot who only watches fox, and we have no idea what the reality is so we can't say anything.
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all this rape talk doesn't make a fundamentally flawed argument, or lack of thereof, any more true.
you talk as if the muslim world is one big cohesive entity. i have no idea wtf sudan has to do with plestine, to be honest. i doubt your idiotic rationale translates in reality.
any way...imo let you fabulate.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:58:31 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:57:55 EST (#)
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man, it must hard being you and going out your way all the time to get pissed and sling your shit aka "well informed opinion".
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If I was getting pissed I would be mocking your failed relationship with an over the hill mom, and the emo whinging that followed.
Call it shit but at least it is talking about something instead of syaing "STFU you don't understand", "it isnt't a board game STFU", or "you have no idea what it is like STFU".
I am bored at work and arguing about things I can't control with people that can't control it either may be pretty pointless, but it is a step above saying arguing about wheather you should argue about it.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:46:00 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:55:07 EST (#)
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you can argue as much as you like, throw in some big words and wiki articles, your premises are still fucking retarded.
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So even the UN backs up my claims it is "fucking retarted" to say one country is worse off than another?
You are the idiot who is too fucking dense to see the difference between comparing the conditions in two countries and comparing a kid getting raped with the condition in another country. One is apples and apples the other is apples and fucking retards. You really can't how worthless your comparison is?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:41:40 EST (#)
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Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:54:17 EST (#)
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dear fuckwit,
please, for the second time point out where i said ONLY.
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Sorry, that was bad paraphrasing.
But it was a stupid comment either way. First Bush getting elected didn't cause Iraq to invade Kuwait.
When Reagan was elected the US didn't spontaneously start declaring war.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:36:59 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:04:42 EST (#)
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i'd like to see indoninja tell a palestinian face to face "you know, it ain't that bad compared to say, sudan!"
at this point, our friend indo who's pissed off 24/7 (maybe he juices too much) probably thinks i'm daring him or something, but no, i would just like to see the puzzled look on the palestinian's face when hearing this retarded non-argument.
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Are you fucking retarted?
I didn't say that since it was better than Sudan, Indonesia, Egypt and Pakistan (what the UN report says) that it is good. I didn't say that they don't have it bad. I said there were worse places.
To use your stupid analogies, so you can maybe get it. If you had a friend who hated black people because his cousin was raped by one, and you knew that his other cousin was raped in the ass by ten white people, don't you think it would be a little hypocritical for him to use the rape of the one cousin to justify his hate for white people?
Nowhere in this post did I say palestine is great, or that living there is good. But you are too dense to get that. Any american who has any opinion outside the US must be a narrow minded idiot who only watches fox, and we have no idea what the reality is so we can't say anything.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 10:04:42 EST (#)
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i'd like to see indoninja tell a palestinian face to face "you know, it ain't that bad compared to say, sudan!"
at this point, our friend indo who's pissed off 24/7 (maybe he juices too much) probably thinks i'm daring him or something, but no, i would just like to see the puzzled look on the palestinian's face when hearing this retarded non-argument.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:57:55 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:33:04 EST (#)
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[a bunch of blah blah]
The fact is that democratic presidents have gotten the US into wars. Now I know it is difficult for you to understand, try to really concentrate here, but pointing this out doesn't mean I love Bush. It doesn't mean I think America is perfect. It just means that he was wrong to say only democratic presidents get the US into wars.
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as pointed out below, the guy never said only.
man, it must hard being you and going out your way all the time to get pissed and sling your shit aka "well informed opinion".
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:55:07 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:41:33 EST (#)
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My point was for all the bitching, moaning and crying about palestine, as far as ME muslims go, it ain't that bad."""
how is that a point or an argument?
so if a caucasian kid comes up to you and tells you "dude, my dad rapes me in the ass every night" you will tell him "rejoice my child, at least you are not chechen!"
you can argue as much as you like, throw in some big words and wiki articles, your premises are still fucking retarded.
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-07 09:54:17 EST (#)
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cwizji or whatever his name is said only republicans start >>>>wars<<<<<.
I was in no way shape or form saying that Iraq and Somolia are at the same level, I was just pointing out he was wrong.
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dear fuckwit,
please, for the second time point out where i said ONLY.
and its Mr. CZwij, to you
CZ for my location, and Wij as in William.
pretty simple really
Submitted by Constitution (user info) at 2007-12-07 00:19:47 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
I forgot I commented on this.
I certainly hope we don't bomb Iran, but to act like America is the only nation being tough on them is stupid. I just read a headline that said "EU, NATO to Keep Pressure on Iran Despite Report." This doesn't sound like a unilateral position by America. Member nations of the EU and NATO, as well as the organizations themselves still consider Iran a threat, and while I doubt they're going to nuke us, they're far from a friendly nation to just about everyone.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:43:44 EST (#)
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:46:07 EST (#)
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in the following sentence, i translated it to every fanatic religious group ever.
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I missed that fanatic part.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:41:33 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:28:01 EST (#)
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I don't have the final answer, never said I did, but I do have an opinion, a well informed one."""
funny, everytime you try to tackle a subject, it's always the same reactionnary bullshit based on generalisations and a simplistic overview of things.
"the muslims in palestines have it better than most muslims, like in africa"
what kind of argument is that? 1. it's fucking irrelevant 2. it's levelling downward and 3. it shows how you equate muslims to arabic, as if the muslims world was limited to africa and the middle east, delibaretly (or not?) ignoring that the majority of muslims are not even arabic.
the devil is in the details and i doubt your opinion, or mine for that matter, reflects the reality on the ground.
s'il vous plaît...stfu.
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You take one line out of what I said and equate the whole thing to "reactionary bullshit".
The quality of life in palestine wasn't the heart of my argument it was an aside. If muslims in the middle east really cared about helping other muslims out, they would be looking elsewhere to where muslims are much worse off.
I know most muslims aren't arabic fuckstain, I lived in the largest muslim country in the world. But arab muslims are the heart of the muslim world, and they are the ones most butt hurt over Israel. My point was for all the bitching, moaning and crying about palestine, as far as ME muslims go, it ain't that bad.
Once again try and concentrate here. I am not saying it is peachy, I am not saying I want to live there, I am not saying there isn't things going on there that should be stopped, I am saying it is far from the worst. And it isn't just my opinion. It is the opinion of the UN.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:33:04 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:30:03 EST (#)
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of course you deliberatly left out the most important part of this article: "Part of the Somalian Civil War"
I want to be like you and adopt reality to my argumetns as i go along. it's fucking awesome.
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I didn't leave anything out. He said it is Republicans that use force and get america into wars. This clearly wasn't the case with Kosovo and Somalia.
it doesn't matter if Somalia was already in a civil war, the US involvement there could be considered a war (not technically a war, but tneither was vietnam, they were engaging warlords on the ground defacto war).
Kosovo was different because it was led by the UN, so fucking what. In my book it was still a democratic president getting the US involved in a war. Do I think the war was more morally and legally justifiable, yes. But it doesn't mean that it wasn't sending Us troops to war.
It was different because there were already hostilities in kosovo? There were hostilities in Iraq. We were still patrolling no fly zones to protect the Kurds in the north and shiites in the south. Since 1998 when clinton signed the Iarq liberation act we weere funding groups to start democracy. What exactly do you think that means? We were teaching them about democracy or funding groups in Iraq to fight Saddam? Remember Operation Desert Fox (also under clinton) where we started bombing Iraq targets outside of the no-fly zone?
The fact is that democratic presidents have gotten the US into wars. Now I know it is difficult for you to understand, try to really concentrate here, but pointing this out doesn't mean I love Bush. It doesn't mean I think America is perfect. It just means that he was wrong to say only democratic presidents get the US into wars.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-12-06 23:27:53 EST (#)
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people saying "god wants" when they really mean "i want".
Indeed.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:46:07 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:13:51 EST (#)
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Inion didn't just say palestenians are getting a lot of shit (although in my opinion they are, but they are still doing better off than many ME and african nations, but those other places don't have problems caused by the jews so who cares) she said she knows a jewish person who ignorantly blamed muslims in general for the ME problems so all jews must hate Muslims.
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actually you translated it to all jews hate muslims. in the following sentence, i translated it to every fanatic religious group ever. christian, jew, muslim, hari krishnas, whatever (cept most buddhist groups). you bring religion into politics and this is what happens. it's a massive problem in america right now. people saying "god wants" when they really mean "i want".
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:30:03 EST (#)
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Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:19:27 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:09:59 EST (#)
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with my super wiki skills, i can tell you that everything happened under the "United Nations Operation in Somalia II", communally named UNOSOM II.
it's stupid to say only republicans start wars.
it's stupid to say Somalia was a war.
invalidating the former doesn't make the latter any less dumb therefore, you are dumb. get it?
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The 1992-1993 War in Somalia was a United States initiated and United Nations sanctioned military operation(code-named OPERATION RESTORE HOPE) from 9 December 1992 to 4 May 1993. The Unified Task Force (UNITAF), a United States' led multinational force, was charged with carrying out United Nations Security Resolution 794.
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of course you deliberatly left out the most important part of this article: "Part of the Somalian Civil War"
I want to be like you and adopt reality to my argumetns as i go along. it's fucking awesome.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:28:01 EST (#)
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I don't have the final answer, never said I did, but I do have an opinion, a well informed one."""
funny, everytime you try to tackle a subject, it's always the same reactionnary bullshit based on generalisations and a simplistic overview of things.
"the muslims in palestines have it better than most muslims, like in africa"
what kind of argument is that? 1. it's fucking irrelevant 2. it's levelling downward and 3. it shows how you equate muslims to arabic, as if the muslims world was limited to africa and the middle east, delibaretly (or not?) ignoring that the majority of muslims are not even arabic.
the devil is in the details and i doubt your opinion, or mine for that matter, reflects the reality on the ground.
s'il vous plaît...stfu.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:24:01 EST (#)
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I am heading home for the day to eat latkes and burn effegies of frenchmen and palestenians.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:22:43 EST (#)
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Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:19:26 EST (#)
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you are quite the scholar...lol
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what are you doing?
Don't pretend you don't throw out your own observations and judgements whenever someone talks about politics. You just start off with "You guys are stoopid who does this", then you jump in the subject and wiki responsed.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:19:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:09:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
with my super wiki skills, i can tell you that everything happened under the "United Nations Operation in Somalia II", communally named UNOSOM II.
it's stupid to say only republicans start wars.
it's stupid to say Somalia was a war.
invalidating the former doesn't make the latter any less dumb therefore, you are dumb. get it?
------------------
The 1992-1993 War in Somalia was a United States initiated and United Nations sanctioned military operation(code-named OPERATION RESTORE HOPE) from 9 December 1992 to 4 May 1993. The Unified Task Force (UNITAF), a United States' led multinational force, was charged with carrying out United Nations Security Resolution 794.
So yeah I can call Somalia a War, I don't think it is a great example, but it stillworks.
But I am dumb because it was "technically" started by Bush Sr.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:19:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:13:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
when I hear something wrong I correct it. """
you are quite the scholar...lol
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:16:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:08:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think I ammended what I said a few replies later that Somalia wasn't a good example of a war (it isn't, but it was more than one day), and mentioned Kosovo.
===
the war wasn't started by the US.
it was an ongoing conflict that NATO intervened in with bombings to force the serbs out of kosovo and let peacekeepers in.
fuck all to do with Iraq, which military operations were initiated by the US.
no matter how you slice it or dice, your comparison is retarded. just stfu.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:13:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:04:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www2.ubersite.com/m/113555#2598977
man, i love how indoninja has all the final answers for one of the most complex ongoing conflict in the world. he's not the only one though.
so many people get emotional over that small arera of the world because they think they got it all figured out. it's talking with over the top religious people.
random person: "palestinians sure are getting a lot of shit right now...just an observation."
indoninja: "FUCK THAT! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "PALESTINIAN", JEWS ARE A SCAPEGOAT! I'M A REACTIONNARY! ARRRGH! LET'S TALK ABOUT GAY RIGHTS AND ABORTION, I WANNA CLIMAX"
---------------------------
I don't have the final answer, never said I did, but I do have an opinion, a well informed one. I am aware of many facts that people either ignore or aren't aware of, and when I hear something wrong I correct it.
I don't understand why you throw a hissy fit whenever someone gives their two cents. Maybe I should be more like you, concentrate on how much gel there is in my hair and say whenever anyone comments on a political situation they are being a know it all or playing world affairs like it is a game board.
Inion didn't just say palestenians are getting a lot of shit (although in my opinion they are, but they are still doing better off than many ME and african nations, but those other places don't have problems caused by the jews so who cares) she said she knows a jewish person who ignorantly blamed muslims in general for the ME problems so all jews must hate Muslims.
I didn't jump in and start spouting off about palestine and Israel out of nowhere.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:09:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:02:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Somalia was a UN food aid mission that was turned into an attempt at nation building. it didn;t accidently turn into a battle. The US wasn't operating under UN rules when it decided to start grabbing warlords.
I am not comparing it to Iraq, I am saying it is stupid to say only republican start wars. What went on in SOmalia was more than just a one day event, they only made a movie about one day though so that is all most people know about.
====
with my super wiki skills, i can tell you that everything happened under the "United Nations Operation in Somalia II", communally named UNOSOM II.
it's stupid to say only republicans start wars.
it's stupid to say Somalia was a war.
invalidating the former doesn't make the latter any less dumb therefore, you are dumb. get it?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:08:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think I ammended what I said a few replies later that Somalia wasn't a good example of a war (it isn't, but it was more than one day), and mentioned Kosovo.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:05:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:44:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i doubt it has nothign to do with the death of muslims. the rate of palestine death to israel is like 4:1 or something. that's gotta hurt.
------------------------------
It is probably closer to 5 or 6 to one.
There have been many conflicts in the past 10 years that killed more muslims. The difference is that Israel beat a number of muslim nations every time they went to war with them, so there is a strong hatred there.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:04:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www2.ubersite.com/m/113555#2598977
man, i love how indoninja has all the final answers for one of the most complex ongoing conflict in the world. he's not the only one though.
so many people get emotional over that small arera of the world because they think they got it all figured out. it's talking with over the top religious people.
random person: "palestinians sure are getting a lot of shit right now...just an observation."
indoninja: "FUCK THAT! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "PALESTINIAN", JEWS ARE A SCAPEGOAT! I'M A REACTIONNARY! ARRRGH! LET'S TALK ABOUT GAY RIGHTS AND ABORTION, I WANNA CLIMAX"
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 16:02:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:48:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Somalia wasn't a war. It was a one day operation backed by the UN that turned into battle in a city.
That's like saying Bush and Hitler are the same because Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Barbarossa are the same because they are both wars. Hell, to some extent, the war in iraq and the eastern front were both invasions semantically, while you compare a full scale years long war with a street fight.
Some douchebag shot 9 people in a mall in Ohio. If he was registered democrat, maybe you can spin that incident and compare it to Iraq while you're at it? That way you can make republicans war hawks look like doves.
You are prone to brain cramps when you want to be right.
-----------------
Somalia was a UN food aid mission that was turned into an attempt at nation building. it didn;t accidently turn into a battle. The US wasn't operating under UN rules when it decided to start grabbing warlords.
I am not comparing it to Iraq, I am saying it is stupid to say only republican start wars. What went on in SOmalia was more than just a one day event, they only made a movie about one day though so that is all most people know about.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:48:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:35:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:19:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
your comparison between iraq and some skirmish in mogadishu is retarded...at best.
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cwizji or whatever his name is said only republicans start >>>>wars<<<<<.
I was in no way shape or form saying that Iraq and Somolia are at the same level, I was just pointing out he was wrong.
===
Somalia wasn't a war. It was a one day operation backed by the UN that turned into battle in a city.
That's like saying Bush and Hitler are the same because Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Barbarossa are the same because they are both wars. Hell, to some extent, the war in iraq and the eastern front were both invasions semantically, while you compare a full scale years long war with a street fight.
Some douchebag shot 9 people in a mall in Ohio. If he was registered democrat, maybe you can spin that incident and compare it to Iraq while you're at it? That way you can make republicans war hawks look like doves.
You are prone to brain cramps when you want to be right.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:44:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i doubt it has nothign to do with the death of muslims. the rate of palestine death to israel is like 4:1 or something. that's gotta hurt.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:32:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:22:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
WAY TO GET THAT REPLY TIME DOWN DICK!!
but seriously, they just really do all hate each other. been fighting for ages and ages and generations and eons and decades. i'm sure back when we were all chimps it was chimp against chimp fighting over the god of rocks.
----------------
Actually there was relative calm between them in jerusalem (there was still a significant portion of Muslims).
Tension started up when they moved there bought land from Jordanians and started modern farms which did better than the Pally neighbors (they also bought land that Pallies had been renting). After they declared state hood the surrounding muslim states were mad because they weren't living like animals. During the war some pallys were booted, but most fled (all the people who cry for right of return should recognize that just as many jews from surrouonding countries were given the boot).
Between 48-67 things actually calmed down because the "palestenians" were now part of Egypt and Jordan. Never once during that time was there a call for a state of palestine. It is only after the 67 war when Israel took land as a buffer that the muslim world is really irate. It has nothing to do with the death of muslims (there are number of conflicts that kill more). It has nothing to do with oppression or civil rights abuses (UN ranks Palestine areas as having a higher quality of life than many muslim countries in the ME and africa). It has to do with using jews as an excuse for why things are bad in the muslim world. It is nothing but a scapegoat.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:22:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
WAY TO GET THAT REPLY TIME DOWN DICK!!
but seriously, they just really do all hate each other. been fighting for ages and ages and generations and eons and decades. i'm sure back when we were all chimps it was chimp against chimp fighting over the god of rocks.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:17:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:09:31 EST (#)
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:03:11 EST (#)
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and considering the founding of a modern israel it would make sense that palestine would be all "hey give it back now you assholes" about it.
simple middle east blanket statement politics - hate everyone that isn't just like you.
---------------
Actually jerusalem has had majority jews for about the last 1000 years.
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sure, just it wasn't located in israel til the last 60 odd years. i dunno. i don't care any more. give them lebanon. they have fun bombing the crap out of it. why not piss off yet another country by forcing a coup?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:16:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Mean a hundred, not a thousand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Jerusalem
It looks like it has been jewish since the 1850's. And it has always been the center of their religion.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:10:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:01:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
ok fine and nearly every israeli spokes person ever.
dick.
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i am pretty sure an Israeli spokesperson never said they hat muslims, or that problems in the middle east are caused by just muslims, no country, no group.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:09:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:03:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
and considering the founding of a modern israel it would make sense that palestine would be all "hey give it back now you assholes" about it.
simple middle east blanket statement politics - hate everyone that isn't just like you.
---------------
Actually jerusalem has had majority jews for about the last 1000 years.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:03:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
and considering the founding of a modern israel it would make sense that palestine would be all "hey give it back now you assholes" about it.
simple middle east blanket statement politics - hate everyone that isn't just like you.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 15:01:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
ok fine and nearly every israeli spokes person ever.
dick.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:41:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:28:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
funny...
i was talking to this jewish lady in my art class about the whole middle east crap. she was really quick to blame muslims. not specific countries, not specific dictators or parties, just muslims in general.
just face it, they hate each other. this is not a new theme with any fanatic religious group.
-------------------
One jewish lady.
Case closed then I guess.
Do you know what is going on in Annapolis this week? Israel is meeting with palestenainas to make peace. While Abbas was there the Palestinian Legislative Council passed a law making it treason to give any concessions towards jerusalem. They refuse any peace treaty that doesn't make Jerusalem a Palestinian, Arab and Islamic city and that it is totally forbidden to give up or conduct negotiations about any part of the city.
They want a treaty that will give the most sacred place in the world to the jews completely muslim. Do you htink that is reasonable? Who hates who more? who is actually making concessions?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:35:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:19:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
your comparison between iraq and some skirmish in mogadishu is retarded...at best.
---------
cwizji or whatever his name is said only republicans start wars.
I was in no way shape or form saying that Iraq and Somolia are at the same level, I was just pointing out he was wrong.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:28:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:07:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The protesting is pretty extreme, though I would be happy to see it once. However when the biggest muslim group in America supports Hammas and has speakers that call for wiping out Israel, it should upset people.
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funny...
i was talking to this jewish lady in my art class about the whole middle east crap. she was really quick to blame muslims. not specific countries, not specific dictators or parties, just muslims in general.
just face it, they hate each other. this is not a new theme with any fanatic religious group.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:25:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i'm liking this argument. it's like watching cnn except with swearing and interesting commentary.
keep it up.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:19:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:07:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
The protesting is pretty extreme, though I would be happy to see it once. However when the biggest muslim group in America supports Hammas and has speakers that call for wiping out Israel, it should upset people.
I don't think I ever said the second one or anything like it. In fact all the anti war protests have been much larger than the pro war "rallies" (One is a protest and the other is a rally because only hippies protest).
===
it's an example. you got the point, stfu.
your comparison between iraq and some skirmish in mogadishu is retarded...at best.
if you were on the opposite side of wherever it is you stand on the political spectrum, you'd be making bush/hitler analogies all the time.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:16:27 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:04:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I want full cooperation with the IAEA. I am not saying increase pressure, keep it where it is.
===
ok, mr. president, we'll get it done.
*sigh*
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:07:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 11:13:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the only thing i dislike about you is how you are so prompt to dismantle stupid arguments, and rightly so, while at the same time you're the first to make far-fetched idiotic comparisons to defend uh-merica.
classic indoninja example:
"Where is the so-called moderate muslim majority? Why aren't they protesting?"
"There is no vocal anti-war american majority because ordinary people usually don't take the streets"
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The protesting is pretty extreme, though I would be happy to see it once. However when the biggest muslim group in America supports Hammas and has speakers that call for wiping out Israel, it should upset people.
I don't think I ever said the second one or anything like it. In fact all the anti war protests have been much larger than the pro war "rallies" (One is a protest and the other is a rally because only hippies protest).
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 14:04:11 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 11:24:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the country is already surrounded. it recieved a bunch of threats and sanctions already.
what more do you want? if that happened to the US, you would be shitting bricks. it's amazing the number of would-be emperors on the internet who think geopolitics is like playing a board game.
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I want full cooperation with the IAEA. I am not saying increase pressure, keep it where it is.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 11:24:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 07:59:40 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
If they did in fact halt their nuclear program, great, but the enriching uranium, IS still dangerous and lack of cooperation with and transparency to the IAEA IS still dangerous. As long as they don't cooperate with the IAEA I am for political pressure.
===
the country is already surrounded. it recieved a bunch of threats and sanctions already.
what more do you want? if that happened to the US, you would be shitting bricks. it's amazing the number of would-be emperors on the internet who think geopolitics is like playing a board game.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-06 11:13:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:31:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
nation building in Somalia, that was CLinton also.
yes Iraq was on a much larger scale, I am just saying that it isn;t only republicans that get their hands dirty.
===
the only thing i dislike about you is how you are so prompt to dismantle stupid arguments, and rightly so, while at the same time you're the first to make far-fetched idiotic comparisons to defend uh-merica.
classic indoninja example:
"Where is the so-called moderate muslim majority? Why aren't they protesting?"
"There is no vocal anti-war american majority because ordinary people usually don't take the streets"
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-06 07:59:40 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
The same people responsible for the lates report on Iran's nuc capabilities gave this speech four months ago
"Iran and North Korea are the states of most concern to us. The United States' concerns about Iran are shared by many nations, including many of Iran's neighbors. Iran is continuing to pursue uranium enrichment and has shown more interest in protracting negotiations and working to delay and diminish the impact of UNSC sanctions than in reaching an acceptable diplomatic solution. We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons--despite its international obligations and international pressure. This is a grave concern to the other countries in the region whose security would be threatened should Iran acquire nuclear weapons."
-Thomas Fingar, one of the three authors of the NIE report on Iran.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2007/12/nie_an_abrupt_aboutface.asp
This has some other interesting tidbits.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110010946
If they did in fact halt their nuclear program, great, but the enriching uranium, IS still dangerous and lack of cooperation with and transparency to the IAEA IS still dangerous. As long as they don't cooperate with the IAEA I am for political pressure.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-12-06 03:56:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2007-12-05 21:47:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
if youre stooping to cracks at spelling and/or language use, youre losing.
---
...rather convenient rule making, sloth.
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-06 02:59:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:31:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
nation building in Somalia, that was CLinton also.
yes Iraq was on a much larger scale, I am just saying that it isn;t only republicans that get their hands dirty.
=============
only thing happened there is they made a pretty good action flick about it
otherwise there were like what, 19 soldiers killed in an area they shouldnt have been anyway.
if it wasnt for that film, no one would remember or know of it. i think there is an unwritten clause somewhere in your constitution where each elected president must mandatorily start an armed conflict somewhere.
just pissing in the wind is all
Submitted by Wildman (user info) at 2007-12-06 02:58:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 1
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2007-12-05 21:47:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
caul fuckin smokes all of you idiots.
*********
he always does, but it's, almost, completely off-set by his lack of street-smarts
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 23:58:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-05 06:31:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i love the states, just dont agree with the current politics.
why is it whenever there is a republican in power, war soon follows?
its interesting. republican's seem to use force as a diplomacy and democrats usual try to talk first, shoot later; where it matters anyway.
--------------------------------------
Yeah, basically.
Submitted by iddqd (user info) at 2007-12-05 21:47:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
caul fuckin smokes all of you idiots.
ps. if youre stooping to cracks at spelling and/or language use, youre losing.
Submitted by corn_nugget (user info) at 2007-12-05 16:15:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Wow. Good times to live in, eh? "
There have been worse times.
Submitted by mles76 (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:53:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
How dare you say anything negative about the greates country in the world?
-2 for being a terrorist.
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:48:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 14:35:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/sherri-shepherd-doesnt-g_n_75292.html
------
proof that here, stupidity is at best acceptable, and at worst network financed.
CN I PLS MOVE NOW KTHXBAI!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:31:13 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:49:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:02:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the kosovo war was a hiccup compared to the iraq war and it was supported by international bodies.
pommes et oranges
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exactly, hardly comparable.
just an example fo the states half heartedly butting in...
nothing to gain much from that other than token policing.
no cash there, so little interest or incentive
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nation building in Somalia, that was CLinton also.
yes Iraq was on a much larger scale, I am just saying that it isn;t only republicans that get their hands dirty.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:21:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:07:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The.Masked.Assailant (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:03:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
.
-----------------
poignant
-
Not necessarily blaming you for this, but, maybe if it weren't for the God-damned pissing contests that plague the Internet, individual such as this assailant fellow would be more likely to write out their criticisms instead of rating and leaving.
Submitted by FilledwithHate (user info) at 2007-12-05 15:07:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
What a moron! Don't you clowns get tired of the "Slick Willie" crap?! How do you know he destroyed intelligence gathering capabilities? Maybe site some evidence and not some garbage from Rush or O'Reilly. I just remember Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield lying about so-called intelligence for years. They just got caught this time.
>Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-05 12:00:42 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-05 09:28:24 CST (#)
Ranking: 0
bush trying to spin this is pretty hilarious. whoops you've got some mud on your face.
asshat.
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Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up.
Either way, Iran wasn't being very open about their intentions and who really knows if THIS evidence is fact. We just simply don't know shit about Iran.
Submitted by rob_berg (user info) at 2007-12-05 14:53:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-05 12:00:42 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
"Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up."
---
Are you just pretending to be this stupid - you know, for kicks?
"Either way, Iran wasn't being very open about their intentions and who really knows if THIS evidence is fact. We just simply don't know shit about Iran."
---
You're not, are you.
Yeesh.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 14:35:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/sherri-shepherd-doesnt-g_n_75292.html
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 14:29:02 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-05 12:00:42 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up.
===
when in doubt, blame clinton.
stop watching foxnews, you ETS antipode.
Submitted by Stabkill (user info) at 2007-12-05 12:00:42 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
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Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-05 09:28:24 CST (#)
Ranking: 0
bush trying to spin this is pretty hilarious. whoops you've got some mud on your face.
asshat.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Slick Willie Clinton destroyed our intelligence gathering capabilities. Bush certainly isn't the guy to build those back up.
Either way, Iran wasn't being very open about their intentions and who really knows if THIS evidence is fact. We just simply don't know shit about Iran.
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:49:22 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:02:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the kosovo war was a hiccup compared to the iraq war and it was supported by international bodies.
pommes et oranges
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exactly, hardly comparable.
just an example fo the states half heartedly butting in...
nothing to gain much from that other than token policing.
no cash there, so little interest or incentive
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:28:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
bush trying to spin this is pretty hilarious. whoops you've got some mud on your face.
asshat.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-05 10:02:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the kosovo war was a hiccup compared to the iraq war and it was supported by international bodies.
pommes et oranges
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-05 07:42:29 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-05 06:31:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i love the states, just dont agree with the current politics.
why is it whenever there is a republican in power, war soon follows?
its interesting. republican's seem to use force as a diplomacy and democrats usual try to talk first, shoot later; where it matters anyway.
what do i know?
nothing.
-----------------------
Clinton and Kosovo ring a bell?
Submitted by czwij (user info) at 2007-12-05 06:31:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
i love the states, just dont agree with the current politics.
why is it whenever there is a republican in power, war soon follows?
its interesting. republican's seem to use force as a diplomacy and democrats usual try to talk first, shoot later; where it matters anyway.
what do i know?
nothing.
i drive a jeep, so i support anyone who can get me gas for the fucking thing.
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 03:56:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:42:53 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Iran halted it's nuclear program in 2003.
-----
And restarted it in 2005 (I think), I don't know what point you're trying to make, but I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.
------------
You're an idiot.
The point is that the new information disproves the old information.
As in we now know that they didn't restart it.
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 03:38:04 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-12-05 02:48:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
As long as they keep saying they hate the gays, half the country votes Republican.
---------------
hehehe
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 03:36:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-05 03:20:26 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 00:09:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:14:41 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 popular american government bashing.
------------------------------------
So you're criticizing me for expressing my opinion?
Shut up, communist.
Just cause something is popular does not make it good.
-----
Fuck you for expressing your opinion. It's not even yours. You've adopted it from your friends and newscasters because you're too fucking stupid to figure shit out on your own. You post shit like this and expect a piling on of bush bashers and America haters, and I think you're a classless dickhead for doing so.
And you're completely correct - just because something is popular does not make it good. Your opinion sucks, even though it's popular. You suck. Fuck your life.
---------------------------------
Let's see where to start.
If your American, you should get out, because you just told me to fuck myself for expressing myself... and the ability to express oneself was one of the most important things to the founding the fathers. If you're not American, then let me clarify that we find our legal ability to say what we think very important, and if whatever dictatorship you live under does not and encourages the fuckyou-ing of people who express themselves, then I pity you.
SECONDLY, my friends disagree with me often enough, and the only reason why I truly have my own opinion is that I have gotten into so many arguments with them over what I believe that I have had to formulate my thoughts very thoroughly. If other people in the world have the same opinion as I do, well, that's a coincidence.
Also, I don't watch the news really. It depresses me. I read the newspapers and whatnot.
I did not expect anything. If I did I wouldn't post because it would be predictable. I was hoping some people who don't agree with me would log on, so that I could show them a new point of view. Maybe change the world a little, you know how it goes.
Also, Bush bashers and America haters don't go hand in hand. They are two different categories.
I dislike Bush, however I am staying in America because I like it here. It's relatively democratic, and we have some nice stuff.
That doesn't make me like Bush anymore.
In fact, I would even say that I am a Bush basher BECAUSE I am an American lover, and I want the best for this country, which Bush can not give.
All you have done is criticize how and why I have an opinion, but it seems that you have no real reason to dispute my opinion itself, or else you would have mentioned it. You can't just declare my wrong because you disagree with my method, I want to know why my actual argument itself is so insulting to you.
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-05 03:20:26 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 00:09:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:14:41 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 popular american government bashing.
------------------------------------
So you're criticizing me for expressing my opinion?
Shut up, communist.
Just cause something is popular does not make it good.
-----
Fuck you for expressing your opinion. It's not even yours. You've adopted it from your friends and newscasters because you're too fucking stupid to figure shit out on your own. You post shit like this and expect a piling on of bush bashers and America haters, and I think you're a classless dickhead for doing so.
And you're completely correct - just because something is popular does not make it good. Your opinion sucks, even though it's popular. You suck. Fuck your life.
Submitted by bart (user info) at 2007-12-05 02:48:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You ignore the dangerous countries that actually have nukes and then claim that the ones without nukes are very close to getting them so you need to invade today.
These people aren't stupid. They know today what they knew four years ago which is that Iran has no nuclear weapons and is sitting on a large deposit of oil. 9/11 gave them the opportunity to blow the middle class's money and poor people's lives for massive profits by oil companies and defense contractors.
As long as they keep saying they hate the gays, half the country votes Republican.
Submitted by haikumikoo (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:42:53 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Iran halted it's nuclear program in 2003.
-----
And restarted it in 2005 (I think), I don't know what point you're trying to make, but I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.
I love soy sauce.
Submitted by The.Masked.Assailant (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:27:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
ya talkin' shit tough guy?
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:07:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by The.Masked.Assailant (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:03:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
.
-----------------
poignant
Submitted by The.Masked.Assailant (user info) at 2007-12-05 01:03:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-12-05 00:24:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I knew about it before you posted it! =)
Bandwagon:
Ummm.... perhaps.
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-05 00:09:24 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:14:41 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 popular american government bashing.
------------------------------------
So you're criticizing me for expressing my opinion?
Shut up, communist.
Just cause something is popular does not make it good.
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-12-04 01:56:23 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Ohh, wow. You managed to find out something available to the general public.
--------------------------------------
I'll bet you didn't know about this before I posted.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-12-04 04:50:48 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, since you read it in the New York Times, I guess it must be true.
Idiot.
------------------------------------
I read it in two other credible news sources.
Prove me wrong first, don't assume I am wrong.
My information towards it's truth is more substantial than yours against it, since you're just guessing based on a bias.
Submitted by Flack (user info) at 2007-12-04 03:04:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
um...no.
----------------------------------
um...yes
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-12-04 23:21:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"
I'm not sure I fully understand the thought process behind it. The best I can explain it is that small and weak people tend to resort to their cultural identity to define themselves. "I'LL PROBABLY WORK AT THE FRY COUNTER 4 LIFE BUT FUCK IT, I'M CANADIAN WOOHOO!" Then they feel automatically threatened by individuals coming from a place that overshadows said identity.
I think canadians reactions (especially anglo canadians since we're too busy hating everyone who isn't "pure laine") toward yanks says a lot more about us than americans."
You're dead-on Caul. So let me back you up like you backed me up when I said something similar on another post.
That guy who responded to you seems like a real nihilist. He's basically saying that everyone is evil and everyone sucks, which is incredibly naive.
Submitted by d_prime (user info) at 2007-12-04 23:15:20 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
They still fund terrorism. They're still a dictatorship that's enriching uranium that could be used for nukes. They're still a threat.
Unfortunately Bush's incompetence has made any sort of attempt for the US to defend itself look bad.
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2007-12-04 20:39:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:15:30 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:12:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Schlumberger is a kick-ass company.
---------------------
I made a ton of money working for them....
********
if you worked for them in 96, you could have a good idea of who i am
Submitted by Tjhom (user info) at 2007-12-04 19:11:52 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
enough!
no more foreplay!
Somebody bomb somebody!
Submitted by Jeanneee (user info) at 2007-12-04 18:02:33 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
poor
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 17:50:47 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I guess I can stop +2ing this now.
Nice job, guys.
Submitted by sw3953 (user info) at 2007-12-04 17:43:27 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
..and Iran halting their nuclear weapon program is bad because why? Like his politics or not, the Bush administration has stopped North Korea and now Iran from nuclear capabilities. Ponder on that a spell.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 17:41:49 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Not profiting?
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/11/halliburton200711?currentPage=1
Somebody better the fuck be profiting.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 16:18:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i read the review below and all i can think of is the badly written graffitis in high school's bathroom stalls.
"FOCK DE SCOOL! FUK DE SYSTEM!"
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2007-12-04 16:12:15 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Fuck off Caul.
Any reference to the paltry nature of America's character can not be much different from our own. I care not to dabble in quasi-psychological political bull shit.
People in general - irregardless of where they choose to play out their meager little roles - suck.
My point? I hate America as a collective - the same way that I despise society as a collective being.
Submitted by icarus1987 (user info) at 2007-12-04 16:08:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
ETS, you sly dog.
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 15:19:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
It's true though, due to its size and power, America collectivly tends to be ignorant, though not
willfully (omg! i made a rob_berg), of whats around it or in its path whenever it moves.
So yes, at first glance, the stereotypes about americans can look somewhat justified even though I find that generalizing about 300,000,000 people who come from all over the place to be a futile exercise.
But after living in a large city for a few years and coming back to a smaller place, I really empathized, in a micro way, with how americans are treated abroad. I realized how some people can react irrationally toward others who come from larger and more influential places. I didn't say better, just larger. It's reached the point where I have to lie about where I spent the last 6 years to avoid confrontation even with my clients who seem to suffer from a collective small peener syndrome with Mtl.
I'm not sure I fully understand the thought process behind it. The best I can explain it is that small and weak people tend to resort to their cultural identity to define themselves. "I'LL PROBABLY WORK AT THE FRY COUNTER 4 LIFE BUT FUCK IT, I'M CANADIAN WOOHOO!" Then they feel automatically threatened by individuals coming from a place that overshadows said identity.
I think canadians reactions (especially anglo canadians since we're too busy hating everyone who isn't "pure laine") toward yanks says a lot more about us than americans.
In conclusion? marginwalker...STFU!
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 15:04:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:57:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the english canadian complex of inferiority (see marginwalker) toward americans always makes me laugh.
------------
See and all this time I thought she was just a miserable cunt to stupid to look past alex jones website.
Margin, shouldn't the US be rounding all of us in those camps you were ranting about a while back?
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:57:18 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
the english canadian complex of inferiority (see marginwalker) toward americans always makes me laugh.
i've stirred shit with americans for fun, but they actually believe that shit.
they deny they have that severe complex, but if you look at anglo canandian tv, whether it's in ads (molson pathetic ads), comedy shows (like Rick Mercer)...even fucking cartoons (i'm not kidding), there's always some bitching about americans. it's almost as bad as the palestinian Mickey Mouse (www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4). it's no wonder canadian politician capitalize on that complex.
"WE HAVE MULTICOLORED MONEY AND 'FREE' HEALTHCARE...UNLIKE THE USA! YEAH! NOT LIKE AMERICAN! NO NO NO, NOT LIKE THEM...WE ARE DIFFERENT! AREN'T WE? PLEASE?"
Submitted by loki (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:51:46 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:50:32 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you're right we all think and talk and act and fuck the same way.
my previous comments on this post are all a rouse
where the fuck is my SUV filled with BigMacs and Kool Aide when I need it
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:45:00 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Save your stab at patriotism. If my opinion was based on Fox News reports, I'd be talking up the "War on TerRorMiSm", and your government's valiant efforts to save the world from the imminent threat of a nuclear Iran.
All hail America the Great!
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:33:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
what makes you think we aren't aware of our own collective stupidity?
isn't Bush down to 30% approval rating
your generalizations make me think that you get all your opinions from the TV news.
Submitted by marginwalker (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:30:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
"Not only did we make a whole lot of people fearful, we also pissed of the Iranians, which may just make them want to nuke us a little more."
When is America gonna wake the fuck up and realize the biggest threat to their subsistance is their own collective stupidity?
Of course everybody is disgusted by your country - it's a jazzed-up fat farm for the foolish and complacent.
Submitted by i_can_get_you_a_toe (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:25:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
I personally feel that Iran should keep on with its nuclear program. Make dem bombs.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:14:18 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Scourge,
Those first three are called saturday night.
Submitted by scourge (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:09:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
blame the jews?
beat his wife?
get arrested for demonstrating at the local 7-11?
who knows?
i just wish he'd come back here and do it in front of us, whatever it is.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 14:06:58 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:56:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
as much as a zealot as he was you have to kind of miss him
------------------
It was like having a poo-flinging monkey that you could poke with a stick. I don;t miss him, I miss the amusement he provided. I wonder what he is going to do when Ron Paul loses?
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:56:53 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
as much as a zealot as he was you have to kind of miss him
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:54:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:35:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:05:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Learn a real language
==
i watched Shrek 3 sunday and I had no idea what the donkey was saying half the time.
http://www.ubersite.com/m/109213
:-(
----------------
I forgot about that gem.
I hate to say it, but without ETS here to draw kooks out of the wood work, nobody goes crazy enough anymore to make shit stirring fun...
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:52:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
.
Submitted by TheUniter (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:52:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:35:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:05:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Learn a real language
==
i watched Shrek 3 sunday and I had no idea what the donkey was saying half the time.
http://www2.ubersite.com/m/109213
:-(
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:35:09 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
hahahahaha....kaka stirrer
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:32:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:59:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
listen, caul and nick....i agree with you douchebags jesus, so quick the jump into a fight.
all I said was that the user Constitution did not relieve the US of anything by the comment he made.
Christ...what are you guys extremists
nevermind this is uber, carry on
===
look man, americans are all blood-thirsty gun-totting psychopaths who all own hummers or suburbans. i think that's an established fact. /ETS
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:24:45 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:16:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Schlumberger as in owned by The Tribune?
-----------
Schllumberger as in oilfield services, smart-card technology, etc
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:16:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Schlumberger as in owned by The Tribune?
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:15:30 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:12:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Schlumberger is a kick-ass company.
---------------------
I made a ton of money working for them, and their stock meade me a nice little sum too. Unfortunately I might have to sell them soon...
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:14:08 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
And so the spin begins
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/12/04/bush-never-learned-of-nie/?f=1
Submitted by joedaddy (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:12:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Schlumberger is a kick-ass company.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:12:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
More importantly....Germany wants to ban Scientology
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8TA4EU00&show_article=1
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:07:18 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:47:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you're not the only ones?
other than the french (read sarkozy), i haven't seen anyone talk that much shit about Iran.
-----------------
germany has called them a threat and backed sanctions. Canada won't have regular diplomatic relations with their head ambassador (no idea if this is directly related, but they aren't buddy-buddy).
Submitted by nick44 (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:05:51 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
And yes, I just switched up my fucking tags.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:05:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:34:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
according to indoninja, everything the US does or will ever do is perfection.
Iraq = brilance.
--------------
No Iraq = Brilliance. Learn a real language, and more importantly learn to read what we are talking about.
Iraq may be a huge clusterfuck and the worst thing the US will do this century, but it doesn't help the situation to think contractors are just pocketing money hand over fist.
One day you will learn there is a difference between pointing out things you think are wrong and supporting Bush 100% and thinking he is the right hand of God.
Mudwhistle,
you are right about it being a money sink, it just isn't that Bush's "cronies" are getting rich by it.
Submitted by nick44 (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:04:48 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I don't really like to argue about this shit either. But to me, this person's post seemed like someone second guessing a slam dunk.
</I>I know America is supposed to be the evil militants in the world to you people, but it wasn't just us this time. <I>
And the 'you people' thing sounded a lot like Hannity, and Hannity makes me angry.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 13:00:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
on a much funnier note
Bush's response to the report....'Um yeah well...their still dangerous" *scratches head
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=acX.b8N9Bj00&refer=home
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:59:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
listen, caul and nick....i agree with you douchebags jesus, so quick the jump into a fight.
all I said was that the user Constitution did not relieve the US of anything by the comment he made.
Christ...what are you guys extremists
nevermind this is uber, carry on
Submitted by nick44 (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:52:16 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Yes, yes, we could go on and on about the vast influence of countries like Poland, Denmark, and Costa Rica. Think back to grade school, and your class bully. Do you remember the little suck up droogies who followed behind him.
Submitted by triangle_man (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:47:37 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
with great power comes great responsibility
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:47:34 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you're not the only ones?
other than the french (read sarkozy), i haven't seen anyone talk that much shit about Iran.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:36:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
i don't really see how constitution is drinking the kool aide....he or she simply pointed to the fact that we are not the only nation on the witch hunt for iran...he or she didn't say the US wasn't involved?
Submitted by nick44 (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:34:02 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Constitution- thanks for drinking all the KoolAid you greedy bitch.
Submitted by triangle_man (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:29:12 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I know some Iranians
they left Iran
Submitted by ConorJS (user info) at 2007-12-04 12:08:57 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
Thanks.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:55:42 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
http://www.projectcensored.org/07FightingTerror_Loo.pdf
Submitted by Quint (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:53:30 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Death to America! Death to Israel! Death to Ubersite! Cock to Method's Mom!
Submitted by Caulaincourt (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:34:50 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
according to indoninja, everything the US does or will ever do is perfection.
Iraq = brilance.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:29:45 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Quote
"In May 2007, the US House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution calling on the U.N. Security Council to charge Ahmadinejad with the crime of inciting genocide "because of his calls for the destruction of the State of Israel"—a violation of the U.N.'s 1948 Genocide Convention—specifically citing the false "wiped off the map" quote from October 2005. It also called for the U.N. to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons, with the "potential means to the end of carrying out President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's threats against Israel."
This misquote has become a key component of the push for war with Iran, a war that would make Iraq look like the cakewalk it was predicted to be. Attacking Iran would result in massive death and destruction, affect world oil supplies, provoke terrorism, could initiate the next World War, and might even include the use of nuclear weapons for the first time since WWII. In this heated atmosphere, an accurate narrative is essential in averting the next cataclysmic Mideast intervention. When President Bush emphasizes the importance of taking the words of America's enemies seriously, that process begins with first determining just what exactly those words are.
Yet my article is about more than just clarifying a mistranslated statement. It's about the media, propaganda, plagiarism, language, false assumptions ...Functioning much like a puzzle, it engages readers by allowing them to deconstruct the quote and its meaning themselves. This self-verification process adds a compelling aspect in which credibility becomes largely obsolete. The article's 'punchline' demonstrates undeniably that members of the mainstream media knowingly spread this rumor, and readers are challenged to check for themselves by comparing linked sources proving this claim.
The idea is not merely to contest a single misquote, but to also promote skepticism about all pre-war intelligence. If this quote is false, then it's logical to assume that other accusations against Iran could be wrong too—just as they were with Iraq.
The overwhelming ubiquity of this misquote has deterred others from correcting what they probably view as a lost cause. Yet my article alone has been viewed by millions, translated into at least half a dozen languages, garnered radio interviews, inspired videos on YouTube, and become the subject of an entire article in The Bangkok Post. It got the attention of people at the BBC, Washington Post, IAEA, State Department, United Nations, and the Islamic Republic itself. It's been quoted by numerous journalists, authors and academics, in published letters to the editor, and on call-in TV shows such as on C-SPAN. The Associated Press has now begun citing the "vanish from the page of time" phrase, adding that "independent analysts" have refuted the "map" quote; and Dennis Kucinich was prepared to correct the rumor when asked about the subject on TV recently.
These are hopeful signals that underscore the importance of alternative voices in the media, and their potential effectiveness in influencing the discourse. If the first casualty of war is the truth, then it's up to the truth tellers—whomever they may be—to enlighten us."
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:26:31 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Quote
"Across the world a media story has spread that Iran's President Ahmadinejad has threatened to destroy Israel, by saying that, "Israel must be wiped off the map." Contrary to general belief, this statement was actually a misinterpretation. However, it was the Islamic Republic News Service in Iran that first mistranslated the quote. Iran's Foreign Minister attempted to clarify the statement, but the quote ended up having a life of its own in the corporate media.
Amid heated wrangling over Iran's nuclear program and the threat of preemptive strikes by the US, the quote has been continually used to reinforce the idea that Iran is being run by extremists seeking the total destruction of Israel.
So what did Ahmadinejad actually say? To quote his exact words in Farsi:
"Imam ghoft een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad."
Rezhim-e is the word "regime," pronounced just like the English word with an extra "eh" sound at the end. Ahmadinejad did not refer to Israel the country or Israel the landmass, but the Israeli regime. This is a vastly significant distinction, as one cannot wipe a regime off the map. Ahmadinejad did not even refer to Israel by name, he instead used the specific phrase "rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods" (regime occupying Jerusalem).
A similar statement by Ahmadinejad in December 2006, "As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated," has also been misinterpreted.
In May of 2006 President Ahmadinejad published an open letter to President Bush clearly asking for peace and the mutual respect of human rights. He warns that Western media, through contrived and deceptive information, has intensified the climate of fear that leads to attacks on innocent peoples. The letter was not reported in the US news media. Ahmadinejad began the letter writing, "Mr. George Bush, For some time now I have been thinking, how one can justify the undeniable contradictions that exist in the international arena. Can one be a follower of Jesus Christ (PBUH), the great Messenger of God, Feel obliged to respect human rights, Present liberalism as a civilization model, Announce one's opposition to the proliferation of nuclear weapons and WMDs, Make "War on Terror" his slogan, And finally, Work towards the establishment of a unified international community—a community which Christ and the virtuous of the Earth will one day govern, But at the same time, have countries attacked; The lives, reputations and possessions of people destroyed and on the slight chance of the ... of a ... criminals in a village city, or convoy for example the entire village, city or convey set ablaze."
Submitted by monkeyswithguns (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:15:35 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:00:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think that the people in that area of the world have been fighting over land for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years....who the fuck are we to think that we should go in and settle these disputes?
I love Bush's commentary towards congress "stop frivolous spending and approve financing on the war before christmas'
isn't that a contradictory statement?
Submitted by Constitution (user info) at 2007-12-04 11:11:39 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Just about everyone in the world except Russia and China were in favor of sanctions and tough talk against Iran. I know America is supposed to be the evil militants in the world to you people, but it wasn't just us this time.
Submitted by RyuFu (user info) at 2007-12-04 10:48:36 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
brad...are you back?
Submitted by BeforeEmily (user info) at 2007-12-04 10:48:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No Comment
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 10:20:43 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:43:52 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:43:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
11,500 is the rough estimate in dollars that will be taken for every man woman and child in the US to pay for this stupid fucking war. For my little family that means roughly 46000.00, who the fuck is prospering?
Well some are, look at the contractors building our 600 million dollar embassy if you want to know who is prospering.
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That is pumping money into Iraq's economy, net really helping US companies.
Compare Halliburton (the biggest contractor there) to Schlumberger (an oil service company, and HAL biggest oil competitor). Hal isn't doing any better.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SLB&t=my&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=hal
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Yeah, my comment was more towards the 'we're building a fucking 600million dollar embassy? who fucking asked me about that, where and when did the voting go down to approve that albatross?'
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 10:11:47 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Fartman (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:55:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You should read War Is A Racket by General Smedley D. Butler, America's most decorated General and a 33 year USMC veteran.
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Actually Lt General "Chesty" Puller was the most decorated General, however Butler was at his retirement.
Submitted by Hookhand (user info) at 2007-12-04 10:09:24 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
If everything you said wasn't sketchy at best and misinformed and idiotic at worst, it would only be spelled wrong.
Submitted by Fartman (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:55:54 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
You should read War Is A Racket by General Smedley D. Butler, America's most decorated General and a 33 year USMC veteran.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:43:52 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:43:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
11,500 is the rough estimate in dollars that will be taken for every man woman and child in the US to pay for this stupid fucking war. For my little family that means roughly 46000.00, who the fuck is prospering?
Well some are, look at the contractors building our 600 million dollar embassy if you want to know who is prospering.
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That is pumping money into Iraq's economy, net really helping US companies.
Compare Halliburton (the biggest contractor there) to Schlumberger (an oil service company, and HAL biggest oil competitor). Hal isn't doing any better.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=SLB&t=my&l=off&z=m&q=l&c=hal
Submitted by inion_de_trua (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:31:25 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
is there some sort of surprise or something?
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:05:06 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
hello EI, got your helmet on today?
Submitted by EmissionImpossible (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:03:01 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
well hellooooo muddy!
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:01:26 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
you're right manic...i probably would for a little while.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 09:00:19 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
I think that the people in that area of the world have been fighting over land for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years....who the fuck are we to think that we should go in and settle these disputes?
I love Bush's commentary towards congress "stop frivolous spending and approve financing on the war before christmas'
isn't that a contradictory statement?
Submitted by MANICMOTHER (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:59:22 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Oh go ahead and do it, you'll feel better.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:57:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
god grant me the serenity to not choke the ever loving life out of someone today.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:49:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My current mood is...serene.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:47:55 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
My father-in-law (RIP) met Eisenhower. He was Color Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. And I'm wearing vertical stripes today.
Submitted by MudWhistle (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:43:33 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
11,500 is the rough estimate in dollars that will be taken for every man woman and child in the US to pay for this stupid fucking war. For my little family that means roughly 46000.00, who the fuck is prospering?
Well some are, look at the contractors building our 600 million dollar embassy if you want to know who is prospering.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:39:23 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
No. America doesn't prosper. Those sectors of the economy sometimes vaguely referred to as the Military Industrial Complex, which Eisenhower warned us about, prosper. Big time. Bush family cronies comprise a lot of this "complex."
heat to the fire
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:39:03 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:29:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Guess work by a wide range of intelligence agencies collaborating and forming consensus is pretty damn solid guess work. Especially considering that they would likely report the existence of a program based on VERY flimsy evidence so as not to be caught out, you can almost guarantee that there is absolutely zero evidence of the existence of a program.
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Was the intellegence about Iraq solid guess work?
Aside from that I see your point, however it takes a while get intellegence. If the IAEA doesn't have access to their nuclear program it makes it a lot easier for them to blindside the world with one and putting that djinni back in the bottle isn't easy.
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:31:17 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
America prospers, financially, during wars.
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We prosper during wars if we aren't in them.
Take a look at the economy dildo, Iraq isn't helping.
Submitted by MANICMOTHER (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:15:23 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
America prospers, financially, during wars.
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Really? Been to Detroit lately?
Submitted by BLITZKREIG_BOB (user info) at 2007-12-04 08:10:08 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:56:46 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:56:27 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:50:38 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Or even a not-so-good one.
Submitted by lungfish (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:49:59 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
Just to keep this on the front page. Don't have much of an opinion, as I stopped thinking I knew everything about everything about 10 years ago. But I love a good political debate.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:29:28 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:00:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Because until then estimates on their program is guess work.
____
Guess work by a wide range of intelligence agencies collaborating and forming consensus is pretty damn solid guess work. Especially considering that they would likely report the existence of a program based on VERY flimsy evidence so as not to be caught out, you can almost guarantee that there is absolutely zero evidence of the existence of a program.
Submitted by forensicgirl3 (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:05:18 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by indoninja (user info) at 2007-12-04 07:00:32 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Idiot.
Unless they have a nuclear agency that is transparent to the IAEA then we need to keep up sanctions and pressure. Because until then estimates on their program is guess work.
Submitted by Wompom (user info) at 2007-12-04 06:41:35 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
No Comment
Submitted by sicosemen (user info) at 2007-12-04 05:57:17 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
http://www.ubersite.com/m/113537#2596705
Submitted by Berty (user info) at 2007-12-04 05:12:41 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Stop being unpatriotic and support your damned country, you worthless bastard.
Seriously though, diplomacy is a complicated game and whilst I'll admit that many in the US administration aren't very good at it, there are many who are. Power play, posturing and adopting a clear stance are all aspects of diplomacy and members of the US diplomatic corp learned well these lessons during the cold war.
I suppose you could say "well, why don't they speak plainly then?" but that would be to ignore the fundamental human trait of subterfuge and we are not so crude as to pretend we aren't human.
Submitted by skrapmetal (user info) at 2007-12-04 04:50:48 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Well, since you read it in the New York Times, I guess it must be true.
Idiot.
Submitted by Flack (user info) at 2007-12-04 03:04:56 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
um...no.
Submitted by Cakes (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:52:17 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Submitted by Little_Sally (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:49:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
plus two for being like ets as tranlated by an eight year old
haha
Submitted by Little_Sally (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:49:57 EST (#)
Ranking: 2
plus two for being like ets as tranlated by an eight year old
Submitted by DeathJester (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:37:06 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
Look, just somebody pop that wanker in the head.
In fact, someone shoot our top wanker too.
That's the author and apollo, Mr Echelon.
Submitted by Phallic_Cymbals (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:32:53 EST (#)
Ranking: -1
Well, opposing a country becoming nuclear when you hold the largest nuclear stockpile in the world is stupid enough without going into details.
"Oh but Ahmadinejad said he wanted to destroy Israel!". Who gives a fuck, so does most of America. There's a difference between rhetoric, pragmatics and reality that goes over the heads of both the right and left wing.
Submitted by AsshOly (user info) at 2007-12-04 02:14:41 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
-2 popular american government bashing.
what the fuck do you care for? i'd bet both my nuts you werent about to go to war.
Submitted by ilikesteak (user info) at 2007-12-04 01:56:23 EST (#)
Ranking: -2
Ohh, wow. You managed to find out something available to the general public.
Submitted by bob (user info) at 2007-12-04 01:52:29 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
good thing this was released to the public BEFORE we invaded, instead of AFTER
makes a big difference.
Submitted by PhillipTheGreat (user info) at 2007-12-04 01:49:40 EST (#)
Ranking: 0
Even the Chinese are against me.
-- Homer Simpson
The Last Temptation of Homer